Flight tests -
P6317 – “Old Akro has probably missed the point in using the flight tests following the Essendon PN68 disaster in 1978 as these tests were supposed to prove that the Pilot did it!”
Alan, I think Old Akro was driving a different nail; your point is valid though – at least the flight tests were carried out ‘in the aircraft’. I’m no expert on how simulators are ‘set-up’ – the ‘top-end’ jobs on the serious aircraft bear some realistic semblance of the aircraft – within the limitations of the data plugged into the boxes. Further down the ladder however, I am informed that ‘realism’ only extends as far as the ‘programmed’ limitations. Which is all well and good for procedures and systems training, great in fact: but it is usually a fair way away from the edges of the ‘envelope’. Once again – fair enough – limitations acknowledged; no harm done. On a purely personal level – I have no use or time for the ‘artificial’ however I can understand and applaud the logic and of using simulator training. Effective and economical – no argument.
My argument begins when the likes of Hood attempt to ‘simulate’ a real life situation – like Essendon in a unit which has probably had the certification data envelope ‘trimmed’ and modified to suit the ultimate purpose of the simulator. Perfectly reasonable for ‘normal’ training operations. But – the conclusions drawn from the DFO ‘simulator’ exercise can only be considered as flawed – within the limitations of the ‘programming’.
It would, operationally, be a simple matter to simulate the Hood scenario in a real aircraft; at a ‘safe’ altitude with zero risk. I’d bet beers that the average pilot could within a few second return the trim control to neutral – remember, the situation become less critical with every turn of the trim knob – the load lessens. Quick glance at the engine gages – Nope all’s well; then a quick check of the trim settings; three rapid half turns on the knob – spend the next 10 minutes cussing your slack checks. The Be20 rudder becomes effective at about 40 knots – you would immediately (in the aircraft) note (a) the off centreline direction of travel and (b) the increased pressure on your boot – tyre blown? (nope No noise) – WTF?- Engines good OK - check trim – fix before 50 knots. Easyology.
This was an experienced on type pilot – fresh out of a retraining session.
P6317 - “[however] the Coroner chose to believe the Pilot over the Departments theory that the Pilot had unknowingly applied nose down trim.”
Well done that Coroner; I wonder, will the DFO chap (or chapess) be as ‘savvy’. There are a couple of very good questions which, in the spirit of obtaining a fair verdict, should be asked; to wit.
1) Where is the missing part of the control locks?
Traditionally; the three part ‘lock-pins’ are bound together by a stout wire. The ‘rudder lock’ pin is a ‘L” shaped thing which is poked into a hole in the floor, thus locking the rudder. Was this not tethered to it’s sister parts? It is not unknown for this awkward ‘pin’ to be separated from the others. There is a sizable ‘slot’ in the aircraft floor which allows rudder pedal travel. I begs the question – had this item somehow wriggled down the slot and locked a rudder pedal. It has not been found and yet it is, as they say, a ‘thing’ of great interest.
2) Why was the take-off not abandoned as soon as a directional control problem was noted?
Had the directional control problem presented early, then why, unless the reason was known and deemed to be better dealt with airborne, would a pilot continue – with plenty of runway ahead? Don’t make sense – and the ATSB have done little to make sense of it all.
Dangerous muddy waters to be wading through, waist deep. Do we have to force yet another Senate Inquiry to enquire, yet again into the ATSB sliding the facts to suit? I hope not. But, it seems we must, once again, roll the dice.
Sat outdoors; testing the new bench seat (certification and safety check of course) a fresh cold Ale and half a cigar to cheer a cooler evening. Cheers.
P6317 – “Old Akro has probably missed the point in using the flight tests following the Essendon PN68 disaster in 1978 as these tests were supposed to prove that the Pilot did it!”
Alan, I think Old Akro was driving a different nail; your point is valid though – at least the flight tests were carried out ‘in the aircraft’. I’m no expert on how simulators are ‘set-up’ – the ‘top-end’ jobs on the serious aircraft bear some realistic semblance of the aircraft – within the limitations of the data plugged into the boxes. Further down the ladder however, I am informed that ‘realism’ only extends as far as the ‘programmed’ limitations. Which is all well and good for procedures and systems training, great in fact: but it is usually a fair way away from the edges of the ‘envelope’. Once again – fair enough – limitations acknowledged; no harm done. On a purely personal level – I have no use or time for the ‘artificial’ however I can understand and applaud the logic and of using simulator training. Effective and economical – no argument.
My argument begins when the likes of Hood attempt to ‘simulate’ a real life situation – like Essendon in a unit which has probably had the certification data envelope ‘trimmed’ and modified to suit the ultimate purpose of the simulator. Perfectly reasonable for ‘normal’ training operations. But – the conclusions drawn from the DFO ‘simulator’ exercise can only be considered as flawed – within the limitations of the ‘programming’.
It would, operationally, be a simple matter to simulate the Hood scenario in a real aircraft; at a ‘safe’ altitude with zero risk. I’d bet beers that the average pilot could within a few second return the trim control to neutral – remember, the situation become less critical with every turn of the trim knob – the load lessens. Quick glance at the engine gages – Nope all’s well; then a quick check of the trim settings; three rapid half turns on the knob – spend the next 10 minutes cussing your slack checks. The Be20 rudder becomes effective at about 40 knots – you would immediately (in the aircraft) note (a) the off centreline direction of travel and (b) the increased pressure on your boot – tyre blown? (nope No noise) – WTF?- Engines good OK - check trim – fix before 50 knots. Easyology.
This was an experienced on type pilot – fresh out of a retraining session.
P6317 - “[however] the Coroner chose to believe the Pilot over the Departments theory that the Pilot had unknowingly applied nose down trim.”
Well done that Coroner; I wonder, will the DFO chap (or chapess) be as ‘savvy’. There are a couple of very good questions which, in the spirit of obtaining a fair verdict, should be asked; to wit.
1) Where is the missing part of the control locks?
Traditionally; the three part ‘lock-pins’ are bound together by a stout wire. The ‘rudder lock’ pin is a ‘L” shaped thing which is poked into a hole in the floor, thus locking the rudder. Was this not tethered to it’s sister parts? It is not unknown for this awkward ‘pin’ to be separated from the others. There is a sizable ‘slot’ in the aircraft floor which allows rudder pedal travel. I begs the question – had this item somehow wriggled down the slot and locked a rudder pedal. It has not been found and yet it is, as they say, a ‘thing’ of great interest.
2) Why was the take-off not abandoned as soon as a directional control problem was noted?
Had the directional control problem presented early, then why, unless the reason was known and deemed to be better dealt with airborne, would a pilot continue – with plenty of runway ahead? Don’t make sense – and the ATSB have done little to make sense of it all.
Dangerous muddy waters to be wading through, waist deep. Do we have to force yet another Senate Inquiry to enquire, yet again into the ATSB sliding the facts to suit? I hope not. But, it seems we must, once again, roll the dice.
Sat outdoors; testing the new bench seat (certification and safety check of course) a fresh cold Ale and half a cigar to cheer a cooler evening. Cheers.