Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA
#41

A closed safety loop - found one!  Wink

Caught this via the NT News:


Quote:[Image: 2ae2462476247d616361309cf4c359c6?width=1024]


Chopper crash could have been multiple fatality if not for fuel tank standards changes

JASON WALLS, NT News
January 20, 2018 1:00am

THE helicopter crash in Central Australia which left two men with spinal injuries this week could have been a multiple fatality if not for changes to fuel tank standards sparked by a series of earlier deadly crashes.

The design of the Robinson R44 model helicopter involved in the crash was changed after three similar crashes in NSW resulted the deaths of eight people between 2011 and 2013.

In the most recent incident, which bears eerie similarities to Wednesday night’s crash, the pilot and three passengers were killed when the chopper they were in rolled onto its side after striking trees.

The deaths were attributed to a fire which started when the helicopter’s aluminium fuel tank leaked “following an otherwise survivable impact”.

That incident led to action from the Civil Aviation Safety Authority, which now requires a bladder-type fuel tank to be fitted in all R44s in Australia as well as other fuel system improvements.

There are 52 R44s registered as operating in the Northern Territory and Wednesday’s crash is the third in the NT since 2016 involving an R44 or its two-seater counterpart, the R22.

None of those crashes have been fatal and no injuries were reported in the two previous incidents.

An Australian Transport Safety Bureau spokesman said it was too early in the investigation to say conclusively whether the fuel tank change prevented the deaths of all those on board on Wednesday.

“However, it is expected that the mandated change to bladder-style fuel tanks for all R44 helicopters in Australia would have reduced the risk of a post-impact fire in this occurrence,” he said.

The 46-year-old woman injured in Wednesday’s crash was flown to the Royal Adelaide Hospital on Friday in a serious but stable condition.

The 32-year-old pilot and his 32-year-old passenger already in hospital in Adelaide were in a stable and serious condition respectively. The other passenger, a 35-year-old man, suffered minor injuries.

 I am sorry to burst the 'NT News' scoop bubble but if they'd bothered to dig a little deeper they may have discovered that the identified safety issue predated those (2011-2013) NSW reoccurrences for the better part of 15 years (now 2 decades). And if it wasn't for the lobbying of certain fatal victims NOK (like the Cousins in WA) and the efforts of a certain Senate Committee, we may have been witness to another fiery fatal Robbo accident... Angel

Reference: Sunday Ramble - Beyond the pale 

Quote:..Some on here will remember that at Budget Estimates in May 2013 (i.e. 2 months after the tragic Bulli tops accident), the matter of the R44 post impact fire accidents were the subject of Senate questioning. Here is a copy of a post of mine off the UP from that time:



Quote: Wrote:Yep the list is growing and the stench is rising!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You can add the Cousin's to that list...remember this from sub16:



Quote: Wrote:“We have been to Martin Dolan Chief Commissioner ATSB, Albanese, John McCormick, Local Member John Castrilli - who did write a letter to CASA on our behalf but that was it! John McCormick insulted us in his response stating that "CASA is unaware of any other accidents involving this company’s aircraft". Oh My God how insulting to our intelligence. So in their eyes Kenny's Mob have never been involved in other incident!

How many fatalities does a Company need to have to be anything recorded as an ACCIDENT! At the inquest the CEO of Heliworks was questioned about his Statutory Declaration and had he completed - he disclosed he did not complete it and the Company had told him what to write! How could that be admissable in a court of law?

They were aware that this cowboy operation existed out at the Bungles but once again NO ONE would do a thing to stop them...............

It took 2 yrs 7 mths after the accident for the inquest to be held and we did not get the final report until a further 6 months!! Over 3 years!!”

Then

“Well we had our inquest which was an absolute joke and embarrassment for the fact that so many documents were not produced / lost / created etc and no one did a thing about it. Our Coroner Ms Fricker left a lot to be desired and the fact that in the 2 years 7 months not one person in the court room excluding us had even visited the accident site or gone out to witness just what happens out there. We came away just blown away with the fact that so many things were dismissed/ allowed/undisclosed and were allowed to be.

That smell of money I think well and truly came into play!!!
I personally lost all respect for our government representatives, law, safety authorities after sitting in that court room for 5 days and listened to excuses on their behalf...instead of reasons to rectify and was horrified after the evidence given that it was declared and accident.

As I said in court this was an Accident waiting to happen and will occur again!!The coroner in her report even noted the number of helicopter accidents just since the inquest - approx 4 month....and not one recommendation was handed down. She used the words like Breached and Failed to comply in her report and yet not one
recommendation.”

Carolyn Cousins. (mother of Jessica Cousins) Slingair Robinson 44 Bungle Bungles 14

September 2008 4 fatalities

Although according to Beaker this accident was a high-energy impact:



Quote: Wrote:Mr Dolan: There had been a number of post-crash fires associated with R44 helicopters. In the vast majority of those cases they represented high-energy impacts, which is to say accidents that were unlikely to have been survivable and which would have led to a post-crash fire in almost any helicopter.

Senator XENOPHON: So you are saying that the retrofitting would not have made any difference?

Mr Dolan: That would be our general assessment.

Senator XENOPHON: Take it on notice, because I have a few other matters to raise. You are saying that, from a causation point of view, even retrofitting the helicopters with that protective bladder, it still would have been a fatal accident?

Mr Dolan: On the facts that were available to us. We are not aware of any previous to Cessnock. I do not think we are aware of any of the low-energy collisions leading to that sort of thing. There were, as you say, a number of high-energy collisions that would have led to a ruptured fuel tank in any helicopter and therefore a great likelihood of a post-crash fire. Those are the sorts of accidents that generally are not survivable.

But on the evidence in the bureau report it would appear that there was a strong possibility the pilot at least survived the crash impact only to be overcome by the post impact fire, from the report:

Medical and pathological information
The post-mortem examinations for all occupants of the helicopter described varying degrees of injuries consistent with the high vertical velocity impact. All sustained extensive thermal injury.

The pilot’s post-mortem report indicated that he was found ‘...a slight distance from the damaged aircraft.’

You will notice that the post-mortem didn't appear to explore how the victims died i.e. did they succumb to their impact injuries or the 'extensive thermal injuries'. Nor was IMO the post-survivability issues properly explored by the ATSB. It was almost as if the ATSB accept that if a chopper comes (in particular a Robbo) down hard it will inevitably burn!

Yes 004 it will be interesting to watch and I bet there will be a couple of interested Senators tuned in as well..given the QONs outstanding on the subject of post-impact fires and R44s

Here's the links for the high energy post-impact fire fatalities to which Senator X refers:
http://www.atsb.gov.au/media/1533519/ao2008062.pdf

http://www.atsb.gov.au/media/1361537/aai...79_001.pdf

http://www.atsb.gov.au/media/24556/aair2...46_001.pdf

And here is a link for the report from the Jaspers Brush tragedy - AO-2012-021 - that included these two safety issues:


Quote: Wrote:Fitment of rubber, bladder-type fuel tanks to R44 helicopters

And in ICAO Annex 13 Ch 6 under Safety  Recommendations  it is stated...

"..6.8 At any stage of the investigation of an accident or incident, the accident or incident investigation authority of the State conducting the investigation shall recommend to the appropriate authorities, including those in other States, any preventive action that it considers necessary to be taken promptly to enhance aviation safety.

6.9 A State conducting investigations of accidents or incidents shall address, when appropriate, any safety recommendations arising out of its investigations to the accident investigation authorities of other State(s) concerned and, when ICAO documents are involved, to ICAO..."

So what is the ATSB excuse for sitting on these SRs until now (over two years after the fact)?? No this is just another cynical attempt to gain credibility where none is due..
FFS get rid of the Muppet.   [Image: angry.gif] 
   
Errr (grumble..grumble - Angry ) - no comment! Dodgy



MTF...P2 Cool
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Messages In This Thread
Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Peetwo - 08-14-2015, 07:49 PM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Kharon - 08-15-2015, 05:59 AM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by crankybastards - 08-15-2015, 11:29 AM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Peetwo - 08-15-2015, 02:37 PM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Kharon - 08-16-2015, 06:31 AM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Gobbledock - 08-16-2015, 07:51 AM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Peetwo - 08-25-2015, 09:32 PM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Sandy Reith - 08-26-2015, 03:53 PM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Peetwo - 08-27-2015, 02:42 PM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Kharon - 08-28-2015, 06:30 AM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Peetwo - 09-01-2015, 05:45 PM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Peetwo - 12-01-2015, 02:55 PM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Peetwo - 12-04-2015, 11:32 AM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Peetwo - 12-04-2015, 06:04 PM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Gobbledock - 12-04-2015, 02:40 PM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Kharon - 01-26-2016, 12:36 PM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Peetwo - 01-27-2016, 07:21 PM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Kharon - 02-05-2016, 06:34 AM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Peetwo - 02-15-2016, 06:34 PM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by P1_aka_P1 - 02-16-2016, 05:27 AM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Kharon - 02-22-2016, 05:27 AM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Ziggy - 02-24-2016, 12:04 PM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by P7_TOM - 02-22-2016, 02:16 PM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Choppagirl - 02-12-2019, 04:04 AM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Kharon - 02-27-2016, 04:24 AM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Gobbledock - 03-14-2016, 08:17 PM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Peetwo - 03-28-2016, 09:26 AM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Gobbledock - 03-28-2016, 10:51 AM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Peetwo - 04-06-2016, 08:46 AM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by P7_TOM - 04-13-2016, 07:07 PM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Peetwo - 07-27-2016, 08:36 PM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Peetwo - 08-05-2016, 11:31 AM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by ventus45 - 08-05-2016, 12:04 PM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Gobbledock - 08-05-2016, 08:09 PM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Peetwo - 08-16-2016, 08:46 PM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Peetwo - 09-02-2016, 09:05 AM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Peetwo - 11-02-2016, 07:06 AM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Gobbledock - 11-02-2016, 07:16 AM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Peetwo - 12-05-2016, 09:34 PM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Peetwo - 12-20-2016, 07:17 AM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Peetwo - 03-18-2017, 08:17 AM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Peetwo - 01-20-2018, 08:00 AM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Peetwo - 06-23-2018, 09:05 AM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Peetwo - 07-04-2018, 10:51 PM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Peetwo - 07-06-2018, 09:10 AM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Peetwo - 10-04-2018, 08:55 PM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Kharon - 04-17-2019, 08:09 AM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Peetwo - 05-10-2019, 11:31 AM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Peetwo - 06-20-2019, 10:23 AM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Peetwo - 07-22-2021, 10:09 PM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Peetwo - 09-22-2021, 11:49 AM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Cap'n Wannabe - 09-22-2021, 06:34 PM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by thorn bird - 09-25-2021, 08:44 AM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Peetwo - 12-19-2021, 09:57 PM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Peetwo - 03-08-2022, 10:05 PM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Peetwo - 07-01-2022, 08:44 PM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Sandy Reith - 07-02-2022, 01:16 AM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Kharon - 07-02-2022, 07:40 AM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Wombat - 07-02-2022, 08:49 AM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Peetwo - 08-26-2022, 04:57 PM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by P7_TOM - 08-28-2022, 07:00 PM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Peetwo - 09-01-2022, 11:50 PM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Peetwo - 10-21-2022, 10:23 AM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Peetwo - 10-22-2022, 09:14 AM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Peetwo - 10-29-2022, 10:05 AM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Kharon - 10-30-2022, 07:14 PM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Peetwo - 12-19-2022, 09:33 AM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Peetwo - 03-02-2023, 07:22 PM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Peetwo - 03-24-2023, 05:52 PM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Peetwo - 05-13-2023, 10:35 AM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Kharon - 05-27-2023, 05:53 AM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Peetwo - 06-11-2023, 10:58 AM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Peetwo - 10-31-2023, 08:11 AM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Peetwo - 11-01-2023, 08:22 AM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Peetwo - 11-02-2023, 06:16 PM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Peetwo - 11-04-2023, 04:51 PM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by ventus45 - 11-04-2023, 05:33 PM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Peetwo - 11-09-2023, 08:28 PM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Kharon - 01-23-2024, 07:14 PM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Kharon - 01-30-2024, 11:16 AM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Peetwo - 03-18-2024, 05:00 PM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Peetwo - 03-28-2024, 08:13 AM
RE: Closing the safety loop - Coroners, ATSB & CASA - by Kharon - 03-29-2024, 06:38 PM



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